In this episode of The Brave Podcast, we meet Kevin Hofman. Kevin is the author of Growing up Black in White, where he details at length what it was like growing up as a transracial adoptee. Kevin was the result of an affair and was nearly lost to abortion, but God had other plans. Kevin talks about what it was like reconnecting with his biological siblings on both sides of his family several decades later. He also discusses how his adopted family dealt with racism and how they did everything in their power to make sure he connected with others that were like him. I loved getting to connect with Kevin as we talked openly about racism, abortion, and how our past trials can truely be blessings in our future.
Kevin presently works with k-12 and universities in the area of inclusion. From such a unique worldview Kevin works with schools to create a place where ALL kids can thrive.
In this episode, we discuss:
Follow The Brave Podcast
Check out more from Kevin Hofman
Interested in hearing more about Kevin’s incredible story? Be sure to visit his website, where you can find out more about him and where to purchase his book.
Do you LOVE bagels? Coffee? Just plain joy?
Do you love to read but don’t have the time to sit down?
Try Audible! Get a month free: http://www.audibletrial.com/TheBravePodcast
Check Out More from A Peach In Cali
Want to be a guest on the show?
Have a story you’d like to share? Know someone who might be a good guest for the show? Complete your interest form here.
In this episode of The Brave Podcast, we meet Kevin Hofman. Kevin is the author of Growing up Black in White, where he details at length what it was like growing up as a transracial adoptee. Kevin was the result of an affair and was nearly lost to abortion, but God had other plans. Kevin talks about what it was like reconnecting with his biological siblings on both sides of his family several decades later. He also discusses how his adopted family dealt with racism and how they did everything in their power to make sure he connected with others that were like him. I loved getting to connect with Kevin as we talked openly about racism, abortion, and how our past trials can truely be blessings in our future.
Kevin presently works with k-12 and universities in the area of inclusion. From such a unique worldview Kevin works with schools to create a place where ALL kids can thrive.
In this episode, we discuss:
Follow The Brave Podcast
Check out more from Kevin Hofman
Interested in hearing more about Kevin’s incredible story? Be sure to visit his website, where you can find out more about him and where to purchase his book.
Do you LOVE bagels? Coffee? Just plain joy?
Do you love to read but don’t have the time to sit down?
Try Audible! Get a month free: http://www.audibletrial.com/TheBravePodcast
Check Out More from A Peach In Cali
Want to be a guest on the show?
Have a story you’d like to share? Know someone who might be a good guest for the show? Complete your interest form here.
Alexis Newlin: [00:00:00] All right. My name's Alexis Newlin and you're listening to the brave podcast. And my guest today is Kevin Hoffman. And I'll have him introduce himself and let you guys know why he's awesome.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:00:14] Hey, my name is Kevin Hoffman and I am what's called a biracial transracial adoptees. So I'm the result of an affair between my white mother and black father.
I was given up for adoption immediately and adopted by a white family. And this all took place in the late sixties, in the Detroit area. Um, and I was born two weeks after the riots in 1967 in Detroit.
Alexis Newlin: [00:00:42] . Okay. , so right now you train families who are going through adoption. Do you train them specifically on kids who if they take a kid from another race or just what it's like to adopt a child in general?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:00:57] Yes. So I am a trainer for the state [00:01:00] of Ohio and I train foster adoptive parents and , yes, child welfare professional. So social worker and I train, I share from my story of growing up as a trans racial adoptee. Um, and then what I do is kind of share for my story and then give them the lessons that we've learned from growing up in such an unusual way.
Alexis Newlin: [00:01:27] . Yeah, let's get into your story a little bit. So you mentioned you're adopted immediately, , and after their Detroit riots , what was it like growing up as a black child in a white family?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:01:41] Really interesting. So, like I said, I born two weeks after the riots in Detroit, it was basically , The black community, finally, just having enough of the unfair treatment , from the white community, especially the predominantly white police force.
[00:02:00] So that's why it's happened. , and so, yeah, I was literally born into a city where the races were at each other's throats. , and, , as biracial kid that, you know, it was kind of, yeah. Born out of an affair between a white woman and black man , and for obvious reasons, my, my mother's white husband made her give me up for adoption.
Alexis Newlin: [00:02:25] So he knew about the affair? Like it wasn't kept a secret?
Yeah. Because, so my white mother was married to a white man. Yeah. And, and so, yeah, I mean, she, she actually went. To my aunt, her sister, when she found out she was pregnant and, uh, Anne asked her sister for the money to get an abortion. And her and her sister actually gave her the money.
And my mother left the trailer with [00:03:00] money in hand. And her plan was to travel from the Detroit area up to Flint, Michigan. Where she was going to have me aboard it. And I don't know what happened, but somewhere along that road, between Detroit and Flint, my mother changed her mind and turned around and to go home and tell her white husband that she had had an affair with a black man and was going to have the baby.
And that was in a time where he could have responded a number of ways and not many would have done anything to protect her.
Alexis Newlin: [00:03:42] Oh, wow.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:03:43] Okay. I mean, this was late sixties where women didn't have a lot of rights that they have today.
Alexis Newlin: [00:03:49] Exactly
Kevin Hoffman: [00:03:51] Yes. So I'm just very thankful that she chose to do that, knowing that yeah, he could have been. [00:04:00] yeah , very abusive to her.
Alexis Newlin: [00:04:01] Yeah Definetly.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:04:04] Yeah. And so she had me and the agreement was that she would have me and give me up for adoption right away.
Alexis Newlin: [00:04:11] Wow. Did you, did the father or your dad ever know about you?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:04:17] I don't think so. Took me 30 some years to finally track down my father, my biological father and. By the time I did, he had passed away.
Alexis Newlin: [00:04:30] Oh, I'm so sorry.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:04:31] Yeah. So I search, uh it's okay. Um, I searched for, by mother, my biological mother back in 2010 had been searching for her for 20 years. Mmm. And, and actually. Uh, so I used a searching angel. I started searching in the eighties where there was no internet, so really hard to find ...
Alexis Newlin: [00:04:55] Very difficult.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:04:57] And so I kind of [00:05:00] given up for several years.
And then back in 2010, a friend of mine suggests I use a searching tool. And what a search change a person. Ooh. Okay. Basically knows all about searching. And their goal is to connect the adoptees with biological family. And so, uh, I took the advice of my friend and send an email to this woman while I was on my way out to a football game, a high school football game.
And I sent her, this email, told her the little information I knew about my mother. And I'm sitting in the stands at the football game. And within 20 minutes, this woman found my mother.
Alexis Newlin: [00:05:46] Wow.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:05:48] Yeah. That was the first time I'd ever used the internet to search. Uh, and I, I do, I've gone to a person who knew all about searching. So yeah, she, [00:06:00] unfortunately that was in 2000. There's 2009. Um, my, my mother passed away in 2003.
Oh, I'm sorry. Wow.
Yeah. Interestingly, my mother and father had gotten together because of this affair. They died within two weeks of each other.
Alexis Newlin: [00:06:19] Wow.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:06:20] Yeah, that was kind of creepy too.
Alexis Newlin: [00:06:22] Yeah, that is kind of a trip.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:06:25] And yeah. And I don't think you would ask me, did my father know. , No. I don't think my mother ever told him. I got in touch with a brother about a year ago and a
Alexis Newlin: [00:06:36] Oh, so you had siblings?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:06:39] Yes. So I got in touch with a brother on my father's side. That was the first person I was in touch with. , and I had already known my father had passed away. Uh, and so, yeah, I connected with, so he has a son, junior who's 20. he's 20 years older than me.
Alexis Newlin: [00:06:58] So [00:07:00] what was it like connecting with them for the first time?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:07:04] Interesting . So would I, I had finally, it took forever to get all this information on my father's side, which says a lot about how we keep records for people of color versus white people. Yeah. I can, I've done family trees from my mother and father and on my mother's side, I just keep getting responses for, uh, about information on her side, my father, very little information. I knew he had children, but it was like, you know, I could find my father and his parents, but nothing on his kids and it took forever to find them. Um, and I got a number, I actually. took a DNA test.
And through that DNA test was put in touch with a nephew [00:08:00] and that nephew actually gave me my brother's phone number. Cause that's his father said. Yeah. Yeah. And so I called him and left him a message and just said as much information as I could to let them know. I wasn't crazy. And so I knew my father's had a nickname Peewee.
Alexis Newlin: [00:08:21] Okay.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:08:21] And he was a cook, so I gave them that information and he called me back and said, yeah, you know, really casual, like so nonchalant. He was like, yeah, Hoffman, uh, I got your message. Yeah I'm looking through everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got the right information. Uh, it looks like we're brothers. Yeah. Yeah. Give me a call.
Alexis Newlin: [00:08:41] Wow. That is so cool!
Kevin Hoffman: [00:08:45] Yeah. So I've talked to him and I have a sister who's. So he's 20 years older than me and she's 24 years older than me.
Alexis Newlin: [00:08:54] Wow.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:08:56] And I've asked it for him to put me in touch with her, but he hasn't. [00:09:00] So, yeah. Yeah.
Alexis Newlin: [00:09:03] That's amazing. It's kind of cool. We kind of have similar stories. Um, I had other siblings that I had been looking for and mine had found me, gosh, when I was in my twenties, like my dad had been married several times. And, um, I had these older siblings and I remember being on spring break, going to California. I went to Arizona state at the time. And my older sister, Rochelle was like, Hey, is this Alexis? I'm like, yeah. She's like, I'm your sister, Rochelle.
And I remember being like elated, cause I knew about her, but like didn't know where they were. Didn't have a phone number. And so she had been doing what you were doing. She had been just trying to track us down. And so I ended up there's I grew up with my little sister, just me and her. And I ended up finding out that I had like three other siblings.
And so it's, I relate to your story, a lot of like how cool it can be to find that you have other family after several years.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:09:56] Yeah, exactly. It's just a world of [00:10:00] emotion.
Alexis Newlin: [00:10:00] Yeah, it is. Yeah. It really is. It really is a world of emotion. Definitely. Yeah. Wow. And so you stay in touch with like your brother and like, have you, has your family met them?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:10:15] So when, so when I was searching for my mother, uh, like I said, the search angel that night sitting in the football stands and she sends to me, uh, through email I'm on my phone, looking at it. And she had sent me a picture of my mother's headstone. Uh, her obituary.
Alexis Newlin: [00:10:38] Wow.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:10:39] And so that I knew my mother had children, other children with her husband. And so that was the first time I got to see, you know, I knew I had, my mother had three boys and a girl and then me. And so I got to learn their names. And so since she was dead, [00:11:00] I, I was really interested in connecting with brothers and sisters on my mother's side. And so I, it took forever now that I had names though, so that was good.
And, but all the phone numbers that I kept getting back, uh, with these names were all disconnected, wrong numbers, and it was so frustrating. And the only, the last number that I had was, uh, my mother's husband and his name's Louie.
Alexis Newlin: [00:11:31] Okay.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:11:33] So out of desperation, I remember sitting in my office, um, my wife was with me. I put the call on speaker phone and I dialed the number. And within two or three rings, he answers the phone. And I hadn't thought far enough ahead to what I was to say to this guy.
Wow, I am anxious for you right now!
Like, how do you [00:12:00] say to the, the husband of your mother, you know, that you're the product of an affair. Hey, how are you? Um, so I, I just squeezed it out as best I could. I just said, you know, I have reason to believe that your wife may be my mother, my biological mother, you know, I understand she had an affair. Do you know anything about that?
And then he goes, Oh yeah, you've got to talk to my wife and now I'm really confused. And he hands the phone to a woman and then the woman gets on the phone and I'm so confused. Cause I'm thinking, man, did I get this wrong? Yeah. The obituary. I saw the headstone, this woman died. And so I'm going through the whole story again, who I am and why I'm calling to this woman.
And I don't know who she is. And then I hear, uh, Louie, my mother's husband, ex-husband in the background say, Oh, you mean [00:13:00] my first wife.
Alexis Newlin: [00:13:01] Oh gosh!
Kevin Hoffman: [00:13:05] So he gets back on the phone and I go through the whole spiel again, and then he pauses and I can feel what he's feeling through the phone. And I, he doesn't know what to say, but I think it was very obvious. He was at a loss for words, because I think it occurred to him that he may have to be the one to tell me my mother's dad.
Yeah. And so he goes, well, you know, she passed away and I said, yeah, I know. I was hoping, you know, I could get some more information, you know, about my biological father. Do you remember anything about that time? And he said, well, yeah, she, she went to a party and got knocked up by some colored guy. I was like, Whoa.
[00:14:00] So I had learned up to this point, when you're searching, you got to take what you get sometimes last hope to connect to this family. And so I took that jab and just continue to conversation. Like he didn't say anything. I said, Do you remember his name? And he said no. And I said, well, and he said, but if anybody would remember, your mom had a best friend and I can't remember her name, but if anyone would know this woman would, why don't you give me your number?
And if I, when I think of her name, I'll call you. I was like, Oh, okay. And so he gives the phone back to, is that his second wife to take my information down. And then I got to go through the whole thing with her telling her what I'm, who I'm looking for. She says, well, your sister has been looking for you.
Alexis Newlin: [00:14:57] So they knew about you?
[00:15:00] Kevin Hoffman: [00:15:00] Which was shocking. I had a long time to try and figure out what they had known. And so my sister is the closest in age to me. She's eight years older than me. So I'm thinking...I'm thinking, okay, at eight years old, you know what pregnant is.
Alexis Newlin: [00:15:19] Yes.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:15:21] And so how do you explain being pregnant and then coming home without a child? The logical answer was, well, you just tell everybody the baby died.
Alexis Newlin: [00:15:30] Yeah.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:15:32] And so that was kind of what I was preparing myself for. Um, and so, yeah, that's what happened . So when the second wife says, well, your sister's been looking for you, which blew. I was actually floored. I wasn't sure what they all knew.
And I had just assumed they all thought I was dead and didn't know anything about me. And so that next day, [00:16:00] my sister called me and we talked on the phone and she lives in the Detroit area. I live in Toledo, which is 60 miles South of Detroit. And my sister married a guy from the town that I live in now and Toledo, and he had died, but she was really close to his kids.
And this was the Monday before Thanksgiving, 2009. On Thanksgiving, her plans were literally to drive from Detroit past my house to visit her in-laws Thanksgiving 2009. , I met my sister. I saw a picture of my mother for the first time, , and saw for the first time in my life, someone who had a biological connection.
And I had my mom, my adoptive mother, my adoptive father, my wife was there. My two boys were there. , and I got to hear, you know, what it was like to grow [00:17:00] up, you know, with my mother , Louie, my mother's husband , was at best, verbally abusive and so much. Yeah, it was very rough. Household to grow up in.
And my sister actually left the house when she was 14.
Alexis Newlin: [00:17:17] Okay.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:17:19] So it was kind of a, kind of a mixed bag to see that yeah, this, my sister kind of had a rough life, but then it also gave me and my mom and dad, some peace that, you know, this adoption was done for the right reason
Alexis Newlin: [00:17:34] Exactly.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:17:34] Because I would not have fared well in that home,
Alexis Newlin: [00:17:38] .No. It was almost a blessing.
Yeah, exactly.
Alexis Newlin: [00:17:41] Yeah.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:17:42] I would have been a constant reminder to Louie and
Alexis Newlin: [00:17:46] Yeah,of what had happened. Wow.
Yeah.
Alexis Newlin: [00:17:49] So you have brothers too. Have you met with them from your mom's side?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:17:55] Yeah. On my mom's side, I have three brothers and a sister. [00:18:00] I, so my sister, Terry and Clayton, they're really close and they live in the Detroit area. Uh, they. They, I met them. The other two brothers did not want to meet. And so I've never met them. And shortly after I connected with the family. One of the brothers died.
Alexis Newlin: [00:18:24] Oh, wow. Well that is hard.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:18:28] Yeah, it is. It's just, it's kind of interesting how you kind of walked through life as an adoptee where. Yeah, you don't yeah, like, like I've mentioned, here's a good example where, so my oldest brother Michael died and no one thought to tell me.
Alexis Newlin: [00:18:44] Wow. Gosh that's rough.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:18:47] So I, my mother's best friend on Facebook. It connected. Hey, did you hear ? My sister [00:19:00] just died a couple of weeks ago. She had been ill for quite a while.
Alexis Newlin: [00:19:07] Your sister Terry?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:19:09] Yeah. So my biological sister.
Alexis Newlin: [00:19:11] Oh I'm sorry. Wow.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:19:13] So, , It's interesting what you look for as an adoptee. So, you know, I look at the obituary cause I wasn't in my mother's obituary cause it was like I was there. , and so, yeah. Yeah. And so I was just wondering, well, so will, will I, will I be a part of, well, they say I'm part of this family.
Then yeah, I was a part of the obituary, which was really cool. , and then one other thing about the reunion is when, when I met with, you know, my sister and brother, then all these family members came out of the woodwork. Like it was just crazy. So overwhelming. , And I met another uncle and talked to him once and that was eight, 10 years ago. And then this Christmas, [00:20:00] this Christmas, I got a card and, , I didn't know where, I didn't know who it was from. I didn't recognize the name. Didn't recognize the address was from California and I opened a card. And there's a check in there for quite a bit of money from my uncle harold who talked to once in my life.
Alexis Newlin: [00:20:22] Wow.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:20:25] Yeah. And I, I, I was speechless and it was, it was great to get the checks, but more important. , I connected with him. I called him, I got his number from a niece. And, , I just said, man, I really, I just really want to thank you for this. And I said more than anything just for you to, so he had explained that he was settling up his estate before he died.
It's just something he wanted to do. So he was giving money to his children and nieces and nephews. And that was it. And I just said, man, what means more to me than anything was the [00:21:00] fact that you included me in that, that you included me. Yeah. So, yeah, it's been a, just a whirlwind to be connected with that family.
Alexis Newlin: [00:21:09] So I want to go back to your adoptive family. , so you got adopted, , as soon as you were born, do you know what made them choose you? Like they were white family. What was that like growing up in that, , let's get into that part of your story.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:21:24] Yeah. So. Yeah, my mother and father, my adoptive mother and father have three biological children, two brothers and sister. They're all older than me. I'm the youngest in that family as well. And so my mother and father's plan was always to have four kids. They had my brother who's 10 months older than me. The plan was they wanted to have another child, but. My mother's last pregnancy was physically, it was just very tough on her.
So they decided to complete their family plan through adoption. , [00:22:00] back in the late sixties, , I was adopted through Lutheran social services out of Detroit. And if according, it's my understanding that they had a rule that said, you know, if you're physically able to have children. You have to settle for hard to place children.
So that meant that my mom and dad had their pick of, you know, medically fragile children. And back then, they were presented with two girls. One had a hole in her heart and one had bone cancer, their life, their life expectancy wasn't going to be long at all.
Alexis Newlin: [00:22:39] That's really hard
Kevin Hoffman: [00:22:40] Yeah. And then we were living on a pastor salary.
So they decided not to adopt those two girls back then also what was considered hard to place. And in some areas today, it's still, we still are, are biracial children and children of color. [00:23:00] And so I was considered hard to place. So they were presented with me. , Yeah, they were presented with me at, at a tea.
So back back in the sixties, they would take to basically find families to adopt children. The adoption agency would have a tea where they would serve tea and they would bring in all the foster kids and the potential adoptive families. And they would pass us, literally pass us around the room
Alexis Newlin: [00:23:31] That is a trip.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:23:33] Yeah, isn't it? So I ended in my mother's arms and, , the director of the, , the agency that Lutheran social services, which came over and said, boy, he'd be perfect if he was a girl that didn't make sense to my mom.
Alexis Newlin: [00:23:49] Yeah, I'm like why?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:23:51] Yeah. So they, they followed up with her after the meeting. And my mom said, well, what did you mean by that comment? And she said, well, you have two boys. And one [00:24:00] girl, we thought you'd want to make the family symmetrical. So my mom said, no, we'd like to see if he, you know, it was available for adoption. So they made an appointment, went downtown Detroit, , later that week. And I was available for adoption, but they had to check to see if, Oh, I was up to date on my, , doctor visits and I was three months old at this, by this point I had gone to foster care.
I stayed in one foster home for three months. and so right there while my mother and father in front of the director of the agency, she calls my foster mom, mrs. Curry. And asked about, you know, as he been seen by the doctor, is he medically okay, what's going on? I hadn't been seen by a doctor since I was born.
Alexis Newlin: [00:24:50] Oh,That's a trip.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:24:52] Yeah. So that person says, well, let's do this. Why don't you go, [00:25:00] I'll give you the address. Here's where mrs. Curry lives. Just go pick him up. Take him to your pediatrician. If he works out, just keep them.
Alexis Newlin: [00:25:08] Huh? Wow. It's so different now.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:25:14] Yeah. And so they, they kept me and so, yeah, it was interesting growing up in this white family, we lived in a white suburb of Detroit for the first three years.
Uh, I was a year old. Yeah, just shy of a year old. And, , we woke up to a cross burning on our front yard.
Alexis Newlin: [00:25:37] Oh my gosh.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:25:39] Yeah. And that was in Dearborn, Michigan suburb of Detroit.
Alexis Newlin: [00:25:43] Wow. ,
Kevin Hoffman: [00:25:43] Yeah, and by the time I was three, we decided that was not the community for us. And we moved into Detroit into a black neighborhood and from age three to 18, I always had connection with kids that look [00:26:00] like me.
Alexis Newlin: [00:26:00] That's amazing that they did that. Being a white family, to keep you safe. They moved themselves to a black neighborhood. How are they accepted? Like, were they, was it a good reception were people kind of hesitant? Do you kind of remember any of that?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:26:13] Oh yeah. Yeah. So I remember several times my brothers, , being chased home by the black kids . Yeah, anytime it's just human nature, man. Anytime there's a minority, the majority kind of seizes on them. And so that happened. Um, and so it was a tough, tough neighborhood for them to grow up. And we lived there for five years. Then my dad gets a promotion and we move two miles away still in Detroit, but now we're in an all white neighborhood.
Alexis Newlin: [00:26:42] Okay.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:26:44] , I was eight at that time. And that was the first time I was ever around white kids on a regular basis. , I am so thankful that it happened in the order that it did because I grew up around a great group of black kids who, who [00:27:00] showed me the power of my skin showed me this just.
Like they just had today, we'd say swagger, but they just had that swagger. I want it to be like them. , they were like superheroes to me. I wanted to grow up and be just like them. They taught me too, some things , that are just important to know if you're a person of color and you're going to face racism.
And one of the best things they taught me was that. Man. When people, when people are hurt, you don't let them see you crack because then they'll just seize on it. And so I, that going into that white neighborhood and yeah, and when they said those horrible things to me, you know, I showed a good face and didn't let them see me crack.
It in the end, that helped me because I had seen what happened with my brother, my white brother in that black neighborhood. When they saw him crack, they seized on [00:28:00] him and they would pick on it. And I was taught, you know, by this, this kid, in that black neighborhood who was like, man, he was, he was everything. I mean, he's five, six years older than me and , he was like the Don of the neighborhood.
He ran things in the neighborhood. You know, I was this really shy kid. And when I came into the neighborhood, He took me under his wing and basically told all the other kids don't mess with me and they didn't. Um, and so I just, I was really in this protected area. ,My black friends had been telling me that, yeah, this is how racism is.
And then, so when I faced it, you know, I just referred back to what, you know, all the lessons they had learned from those kids. . So it was tough, but I mean, yeah, we got through it
. So all the schools we went to were , 98% black. And even when I lived in the white neighborhood, [00:29:00] I would go to school and be surrounded by kids that looked like me.
So I always had them to kind of, you know, if I was treated horribly in the white neighborhood, I just. I knew I could go to my black friends and be like, yeah, man, there's this woman on my street. She treats me horribly. And I think it's cause I'm black and all I need to say was, yeah, man, you might be right.
And that's all, I just need someone to share my experience and not in kind of, you know, validate that I wasn't crazy. And they did, which spoke so much life into me.
Alexis Newlin: [00:29:36] I'm so happy you had that for you.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:29:39] Yeah. It was a really, yeah. Interesting kind of way to grow up.
Alexis Newlin: [00:29:43] . So how did your family deal with some of the racism that you faced and also your brother face when he lived in the black neighborhood? how did your family kind of navigate that?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:29:54] Uh, it was tough. We didn't, I think initially, you [00:30:00] know, and this happens a lot in adoption is. You know, they give you this big, long sheet and it says, you know, tell us what kind of child would you accept the child with a medical issues and the checkmark, you know, would you accept a child of color?
Would you accept? You know, it goes into all these things. And oftentimes when people are going through the adoption process, they get desperate enough to , they think if I check off as much of these check boxes, I can, I will get a kid quicker. . And so I think that's kind of what went on with my mom and dad is that good?
They wanted a child and didn't put a whole lot of thought into the impact of race and racism and learned very early on that. Yeah, this was going to be, this is going to be something that we're going to have to really pay attention to . And so I think that's why they chose to move to Detroit. So that I would be around kids that look like me.
,You could [00:31:00] say, and I would agree that I benefited from my parents white privilege. So when my dad got that promotion and we moved to an upper middle class, , neighborhood in Detroit, it was a neighborhood that my black friends, their real estate agents. Weren't taking them into the neighbor, that neighborhood to sell them houses.
So I had benefited from the fact that I was with a white family and they got shown houses in this nice, nice neighborhood. , but my parents also sacrifice some of their privilege because they took in this child of color. So they lost friends. They lost access to that white community that, you know, your average white person has.
Um, yeah, they, you know, the church that my dad was a part of in Dearborn, they tried to fire him .
Alexis Newlin: [00:31:50] Because having you as a kid?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:31:53] Yeah. Cause they brought this black kid to the church
Alexis Newlin: [00:31:57] . That's hard to hear because the church is supposed to be [00:32:00] welcoming no matter race,sex, any of that but I understand like it's in the sixties and seventies, so things were very different, but like, it's hard to hear that in a place of God that that's going on.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:32:14] Yeah, it was. It's ridiculous. . Yeah, they went about, and we're going to fire my father if, , the Bishop of Southeast Michigan actually had to step in.
Alexis Newlin: [00:32:28] Did he remain a pastor after this or did he go into another career because of what was going on at his past church?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:32:35] Uh, so he left, we left the church in Dearborn. . He was the pastor of a church in Detroit where we lived in the black neighborhood. Then he was a pastor there for five years, , was honest enough to say the church that he was pastor over when we first got, there was probably 50% white, [00:33:00] 50% black , because of the riots.
Alexis Newlin: [00:33:02] Oh, that's nice.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:33:03] Yeah, it was. And then because of the riots and all the racial issues that Detroit had. The white people were leaving Detroit in droves after the white riots, we used to call it white flight. and so that church that was 50% white, 50% black, within five years was largely black. and my dad was honest and said, you know, I didn't know if I was capable of leading a black congregation and I wasn't sure if, you know, I was called to do that for them.
I mean, he could have done it I'm sure. So he kind of had really questions about that, which I thought was interesting. , and then, , fortunately the Bishop who saved us in Dearborn, he needed an assistant. And so he hired my father. So my dad got a pretty good promotion and that's why we moved to the upper middle class neighborhood.
Alexis Newlin: [00:33:58] So, what is your faith look like now? [00:34:00] growing up in these situations and seeing racism and other things , has this affected your faith in any way? Has this caused any fear in your life ?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:34:09] . You know, it's interesting. . We always kind of had issues with the churches that we grew up in.
. I didn't walk away being like anti-Christian, , I was very proud that that was the base. That, that was the base that I grew up in. You know, like the Bible says, train up a child in the way that he should go and he won't depart from it. And so, yeah. And so I was thankful for that because when I became an adult and I was craving to get back into the church, I actually got into , just a deeper relationship with God. Yeah. We, we went to church. We were, you know, a pastor's family, but I, I just didn't, it's interesting. We just, we went to church on Sunday and didn't really talk about it until Sunday. Again. So it was exciting to [00:35:00] see, you know, as I became an adult that wow, you know, you could actually live a life as a Christian throughout the whole week.
Alexis Newlin: [00:35:06] Yeah. I love that. I know for myself , I didn't feel like my relationship with God became personal until I became an adult because I think I just did with my parents told me to do.
And yeah, Sunday to Sunday, but then as an adult, I'm like, Oh, I just want to know who this God person is and kind of decide it for myself. And that's kind of how I had a relationship with the Lord. That's how it's been, , since I've been 18. , I kind of think it's common that as we were adults, we decide for ourselves like which way we're going to go. And having that foundation definitely helps.
So now your experiences with adoption and with racism , you've kind of turned all this stuff into good to train other people and to help them navigate this journey that you've been on.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:35:53] Yes. So, you know, it was, it was a great experience writing the book because very few people [00:36:00] get to really look back on their life and kind of examine it.
So I got to. See what happened during my life and then give my slant on it today and say, wow, this is what I was going through. This is what I was thinking. Um, and initially I just thought this was a great book for the adoption community, . But one of the main things I did when I wrote the book was I wanted to share my experience as this person of color in this country.
Because I don't think we get to hear from people of color as to how we experience everyday life.
Alexis Newlin: [00:36:37] No, we really don't.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:36:40] And so that was, that was very important for me to be able to do that. And I had to do it in a way where if there were white people reading it, I wasn't going to turn them off. And so I was strategic in how I wrote the book.
. I remember when I wrote the book, I just pictured the white mother, who's raising [00:37:00] this adopted child of color. And I was speaking to her, , and it took me, you know, my wife told me this years ago, but it took me 10 years to figure out, you know, this story is so much bigger than adoption and foster care.
And it actually is a bigger story about race. , and so that's where I'm at in my journey now . You start putting all the building blocks together in my life where, you know, my mother went to have me aborted and chose not to at, at the risk of her own life, quite honestly. , and so why was that?
And so now it's become, , I have this mission or there's this purpose in life to really, and it gets really deep because it's this. Mission and drive in life to do something, to reconcile the races that are a part of me. And I spend a lot of time doing, you know, work to help figure out a way that [00:38:00] we can, we can all get along.
, So I worked with schools K through 12 and universities. And the one thing I tell those campuses is we've got to create a way where. The kid with the black lives matter t-shirt and the kid with the make America great. Again, hat can coexist and get along. so it's interesting that we connected because that's where I am now where it's wow there's this huge mission. That's so much greater than that just comes as a result of all that I've been through and you're like, Oh, now it makes sense.
Alexis Newlin: [00:38:37] And so how do you explain racism and inclusion to kids? Cause you go to universities, but I know you also talk to like elementary to high school. So how do you have those conversations with youth?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:38:47] So one of the keynote addresses I do is it's called gimme three feet. And what I explained to the kids is that, okay. You know, one of the dynamics of being in [00:39:00] relationship with other people is. Sometimes we all want to convince everybody else that our way is the right way.
And I, and I tell the kids, unless you are good friends with someone and are in relationship with someone, there are some conversations you just shouldn't have. And what we're going to do is we're going to, we're going to give each other three feet. So you can operate in your three feet and it really is never going to affect my three feet and we're going to respect each so you can vote how you want to vote, and it's not going to affect the way I vote or you can, you know, spend money in a certain neighborhood.
It's not going affect where I spend my money. , you can date who you want to date that. won't affect who I date. . We as adults, man, we spent so much energy trying to convince people that we will never convince that that's like, it's such a waste of time.
Alexis Newlin: [00:39:58] It really is. [00:40:00] I feel like it causes more division than anything
Kevin Hoffman: [00:40:03] and that's the same advice for adults is man. Yeah. Don't get into these deep political racial conversations with people. That you're not in relationship with and you don't trust cause they're not easy conversations to get into it.
Alexis Newlin: [00:40:16] Yeah, they're difficult. . So from parents out there who may be facing racial conversations and dealing with inclusion, what advice would you give to them?
Kevin Hoffman: [00:40:29] Yeah, this is something I've come across recently. It's interesting. , I was recently speaking somewhere and I was in a hotel and the elevator doors open and there was this little white kid. He was probably seven or eight standing right in the middle of the door. Yeah. And refuse to move. Okay. And his parents were standing right there. .
And that really sat with me for the next couple of days. And I really thought about that. And it had just occurred to me that, you [00:41:00] know, we spent so much time people of color treating our kids. You know, you've got to do this to stay safe when you're pulled over by the police do this, this, and this and this.
And we spent a lot of time telling our kids. You know how to kind of navigate in this world. And I thought, man, here's this, you know, seven or eight year old, white kid, and already he's been convinced that the world must move around him. And as I get older, that play begins even more heavy for me because he should, I mean, I'm sure I'm probably 40, some years older than him.
He should have just respected and moved.
Alexis Newlin: [00:41:41] Yeah.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:41:43] And so I thought, wow, we need, I need to start saying the messages. Not only do we need to teach our children of color, what they need to do to keep, to stay safe, but we've also got to start teaching, you know, white families. Don't, don't let your kids buy [00:42:00] into the con that the world is built for them and it's not.
And so, and then we all kind of freak out when we see these horrible incidents where, you know, this. You know, we've had so many incidents where, you know, a rich white kid in college, you know, takes advantage of a woman and I'm thinking, well, what did you expect for the last 18 years? You've told him everything in this world is yours.
Just take it. We got to do a better job of saying, don't let, don't let your kids buy into that con. This is especially because the world is changing and it's more multicultural than it's ever been. How about we just respect each other and that, yeah quite honestly, you, as a white male are going to have some power.
How about you use that to protect everybody else around you, women. Color and use that privilege. You know, we, you see a lot recently about weaponizing white [00:43:00] privilege and that's a great example.
Alexis Newlin: [00:43:01] Hmm . So Kevin, for this year, what are some things that are your big goals for this year? ,
Kevin Hoffman: [00:43:08] To really stretch what this purpose is about and, , try to get out of my head that. No that's too big or no, that's I can't do that. , and I think we all kinda go through that where you just second guess things and you got to think, man, no, God created you. I mean, he, he gave you those strikes for a reason. There's nothing wrong with using them for your benefit, especially if it's going to help people.
So yeah, that's the goal was to really push. Push the limits and see how far, you know, I can take the work that I do
Alexis Newlin: [00:43:46] . All right. And then what are you loving right now? What are some of your favorite things in life
Kevin Hoffman: [00:43:52] Family. , I've finally gotten to the point where I'm real comfortable with my wife and kids and yeah, this whole [00:44:00] Corona thing has been horrible, but it's also okay.
Yeah, but it's also been an excuse too man. I've talked to my mom and this last week more than I have, you know, and she's part of that population, that man, if she were to get it, it could be kind of scary. So yeah, I've talked to her, my sister more than, you know, and those last two, three weeks than I have in the last couple of months, which is great.
I've seen my kids more. , we joke around and have family time more. And they're older, graduated from college.
So that's what I like just to join, you know, family.
Alexis Newlin: [00:44:33] Yeah. And , before we go, can you let everybody know what your book is called? , I'm going to post it in the show notes too, , where they can find your book.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:44:40] Yup. So the book is called, growing up black in white. Okay. It's available on Amazon. There's an audible version and there's a Kendall version. I, I did the audible that just came out in the last two, three months. [00:45:00] and yeah, it's available audible, Amazon, Kendall. , and then my website, if you just, you can get it one of two ways growing up black in white.com or my name, Kevin hoffman.com.
And then the Hoffman is H O F. M a N N. Okay. So one F two n.com.
Alexis Newlin: [00:45:22] Alright, thank you so much, Kevin, for being a guest, it's been a great conversation and I just, I love your story and the impact you're now having, despite all the things you've gone through. So thank you so much for being a guest.
Kevin Hoffman: [00:45:36] Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.